Techno Animal is a collaboration between Justin Broadrick and Kevin Martin. I interviewed them on the telephone in early 1999. They also recently collaborated with others under the name Ice. I also asked a lot of questions about dub music, since Kevin Martin compiled the Macro Dub Infection compilation a few years back.
(This interview took place sometime on February 21st, 1999)
I call Kevin Martin. There’s no answer, so I’m in the process of leaving a message on the machine, when a woman picks up the phone. She gets Kevin on the line. I can barely hear him. I suggest calling back to get a better connection, but before I know it, he’s dialing up his Techno Animal partner Justin Broadrick. I’m pretty confused. Finally, we get organized. I forget to hit tape record for the few minutes. In my first question, I ask if they have to work themselves into a particularly dark mood to record an album like Ice’s Bad Blood, or if in fact the album was meant to be quite funny. They both laugh at the latter suggestion.
“That album came out of a real emotional hell,” one of them says. I ask about the contributors. “They’re sufferers, too. They’re interested in sickness.”
Kevin – I mean, he died. Yeah, they’re all sufferers. We thought they were all under medication as well.
SAB – You make that in England?
Justin – It was mixed in Switzerland, but it was recorded in about nine different studios – parts in New York, parts in Switzerland, all around England, my studio, Kevin’s studio, anywhere we could get our hands on really.
SAB – So, it’s Jetset hip-hop?
Kevin – Yeah, I don’t know about that.
SAB – You did that album with DJ Vadim in Switzerland to, didn’t you?
Kevin – Justin actually wasn’t involved in that.
Justin – Yeah, I wasn’t involved in that.
Kevin – That was done in the pre-production studio that I work from. There was some stuff done in Switzerland as well.
SAB – What are you guys working on at the moment?
Kevin – Top secret.
Justin – We’re basically doing a new Techno Animal 12 inch, we’re doing a collaborative album with Porter Ricks – we just started work on that – and some secret stuff we’re keeping underground at the moment.
Kevin – A happy hardcore record.
SAB – So you’re going retro then?
(Some undecipherable stuff) We’ll do anywhere that pays – Which is very little places, as you can imagine (much laughter)
SAB – So what’s your set-up like right now? You got computers?
Justin – We’re both Mac addicts.
Kevin – Terrible Macintosh worshippers, and hard-disc recording. We’ll use anything that can fuck with your head, sonically.
Justin – Any equipment that goes really far then we’ll chase it, we’ll do anything to get the money to get something that takes it further and further.
Kevin – There’s been a lot of software that’s been developed in recent years that’s been really inspirational for us. It’s an obsession for us, yeah. We get further all the time. Everything we’re trying to search out soundwise. It’s always being redeveloped, redeveloped, and there’s always something new that we can turn on into our sound, (basically)
Justin – I think we both (long for) extremity with sound, and if there’s any software that allows you to take sound further and explore sound as a science, then that’s where we want to be at.
SAB – Yeah, it’s pretty mad, some of the stuff they’re coming out with. They have software where you can put a picture into your computer, and then it’ll play the picture as music.
Justin – I’ve just got that one. We haven’t played with it yet. We literally got that about a month ago. It’s just sat on the desktop. We haven’t had time to go through it.
SAB – I want to put a naked girl inside, and see what it sounds like. (much laughter)
Justin – (A pentagram – more laughter)
Kevin – (indecipherable)
SAB – It’s something I was thinking about with Sidewinder. You have lots of military imagery. Well, I think computers were originally made for nuclear bomb testing, and I was wondering if you thought it funny that we make all our music on something that was made to make bombs?
Kevin – It’s a nice relation.
Justin – In a way, what we’re doing is leading to the death of musicians anyway. (Laughter) Computers are getting rid of a lot of the waste.
Kevin – Yeah, the unnecessaries.
Justin – It’s nice to know that you’re leading to the ultimate decline of real musicians.
SAB – Do you guys not use live drums anymore?
Kevin – Of course we do. Obviously, we’re not being completely serious. We actually are musicians. We’ll use anything. I mean, the thing is, we don’t really believe in following a regimented way, or rule. It’s quite anarchical what we do, and we enjoy that. We enjoy dealing with chaotic musical complexities, instead of it being genre-based. For us, the enemy is genre, by and large.
Justin – It’s burning the rule books all up, that I like, really. Whatever music we fuck with, essentially, it has got to be sick. The bottom line is – is it sounding as sick as we can humanly get it, really? Fucking heavy as (indecipherable)
SAB – Do you manage to scare yourselves?
Kevin – Yeah, often, yeah, when I look in the mirror.
Justin – Generally, yeah, what we’re hearing coming out of the speaker. If we’re sitting there saying, ‘That is sick, that is disturbing.’ I mean, yeah, we do want that.
Kevin – There is an acid test that we follow, which is that Justin mixes every chemical possible and drinks as much as possible, and I don’t do anything, and if it fucks both our heads up, then we know we’ve hit the money.
Justin – Yeah, it’s true. It really is true. (a bunch of indecipherable statements, and much laughter)
SAB – So as you’re making the music, when you’re using the effects and the computer and stuff like that, do you feel like you have any control over the music?
Justin – Well, the best times are when you feel like you’ve relinquished control.
Kevin – And the machines have taken over. Something’s been created, and you really don’t know how the fuck it happened. And often, with a lot of the stuff we do, we couldn’t even tell you now how it got to where it got.
Justin – Yeah, exactly.
Kevin – The Sidewinder stuff, or some of the Ice album – it’s impossible to say how it got there, and it would be impossible to reproduce in that way. Which is the point – we don’t really want to produce it, as it was. Because we think music should be a reflection of how you are at that period. It should reflect the emotion, and your environment. Why the fuck would you want to keep on producing the same thing over and over again, like a robot?
Justin – It’s subconscious. What we’re working at – we don’t want to be in the music. The moment we can take away us from the music, we’re satisfied. The more alien it is, the better.
SAB – I think that’s one cool thing about making music in the new ways. Like the old composers would make musical scores, and then you have generations of terrible piano players playing their music badly, but if you make music on the computer, no one can duplicate it, no one can fuck with it.
Kevin – It’s more personal. It really is more personal. I agree with Justin totally. It almost becomes absolute escapism, but absolute reality as well. You’re discovering whole new areas in sound, and in your own mind, when you’re doing this stuff. You’re challenging your own reaction, and the more we challenge ourselves the better, really.
SAB – But doesn’t it challenge your sanity, almost?
Justin – That’s day to day, anyways. That’s a losing battle. We’ve lost that one.
Kevin – We’ve lost the war.
SAB – Like, when I’m fooling around with my echo pedal, it’s totally mad. I end up totally scared. If you put sounds into it – like what I was doing the other day, it suddenly sounds like a shotgun’s going off. It’s completely out of control.
Kevin – I love the idea of how you can mutate sounds all the time. And how you realize that there doesn’t have to be an end. It can just mutate always. Why does something have to have a definite lifespan, really. It’s much more interesting to see how things can continue to develop, progress, and change, and for me it’s much truer. Most end results are artificial creations, really.
Justin – Technology (indecipherable) you create your own world, totally.
SAB – How does it change when the equipment goes to digital over analogue? Like, I think one of the big parts of dub is that it decays, that it degrades, but do you find that a problem with digital that it doesn’t decay?
Justin – There’s a lot of space in the sound. We’ve been fine tuning our sound production-wise for years, really. We’ve worked through years of analogue to almost completely digital now. And now we’re getting into (indecipherable), and trying to mix up the production techniques to try to get the best of both worlds. We want the warmth of the sound and the punch, but we also want the space, the eternal space, of digital as well, so we want both.
Kevin – We like both. We like the dirt and the noise of analogue, but we like the clinical intensity of digital sound. The way that analogue effects store and fragment is fantastic, but in a way with digital sound it creates even harsher fragmentation, which is actually really painful on the ears after many hours working with it, but both are valid. A lot of people are either/or – ‘we’re totally into analogue,’ or ‘we’re totally into digital’ – but that stuff doesn’t come into play. We’re trying to search for sounds that have an effect, that have an impact on our psyche, and I don’t give a shit how they get there really.
Justin – It’s the combination. We’re working with both simultaneously, and that’s the sound we’ve been looking for.
SAB – Yeah, yeah, so you’re working with linear and non-linear at the same time. That’s just crazy stuff.
Kevin – For us, we’re just greedy. We’re incredibly greedy with sound, and with finding new things to reproduce. I think we both have low-boredom thresholds. We’re always trying to be excited by sound, and any new possibilities made available to us, we want to explore. I mean, we’ve devoted our lives to it. It’s almost faith. We’ve devoted our lives to it. We’re both social fucking misfits, and the reason our music doesn’t fit in anywhere is because we don’t fit in. We live in a freak colony that we’re the only members of.
SAB – So I guess it’s got to the point, where the music’s the drug, it’s an addiction basically?
Justin – Yeah, totally. I mean, we’re tedious people to be around, if we haven’t got access to the music.
SAB – Do you even watch movies anymore and shit like that?
Justin – We don’t.
Kevin – We were big movie obsessives for years, but it’s gone beyond that. There isn’t enough time. There’s literally not enough minutes in the day anymore, because there’s so much you can do with sound and music now, more than your wildest dreams ever dreamed of, that now you just want to maximize your time with music.
Justin – Exactly. Life’s too short anyways. So we’re just trying to get everything.
Kevin – And we’re both paranoid that we’ll never capture what we want to capture.
SAB – But I think Time’s always going to win, you know. Time’s always going to win the war.
Justin – It’s an impossible battle, but somehow you keep … forever … finality.
Kevin – Maybe we’re just trying to avoid the feeling of finality with music – not only in terms of leaving stuff behind of posterity, but just the fact that you want to feel yourself working on something that’s valid.
SAB – Well, it’s nice to be part of creation.
Justin – I think a lot of musical people that you come across are only too happy to find something, and stay there, whereas we have an inability to stop anywhere. (a weird zoom comes across the phone)
Kevin – A nice feedback sound.
Justin – Yeah, yeah
SAB – Yeah, it’s kind of a crazy conversation. I can hear my voice echoing. Are you guys echoing, too?
Justin – I’ve got it all coming out of a speaker so it’s really crazy.
Kevin – A Marshall stack.
Justin – I’m hearing multiple delays of my own voice, plus your voices.
SAB – Sounds like one of you guys is on a cellular phone.
Justin – We’re talking from Mars.
SAB – It’s crazy as far as I can tell with music right now – it’s almost 2000, but I almost get the impression that any music that can ever be made could be made right now – it’s infinite.
Justin – It’s a crazy time, but it’s all media that invented all this shit anyway, about the Millenium. It’s just a fucking number, a manmade number.
SAB – Not even the right number.
Justin – Exactly, yeah. According to someone else, it was last year. Today’s never going to happen again. Tomorrow’s never going to happen again. Who gives a shit whether New Years Eve 1999 never happens again. You should just make the most of everyday.
Kevin – Yeah, everyday can be your last day. I think we both suffer from uncontrollable quaffs of dread and paranoia.
Justin – Yeah, it just can’t be helped. That’s another reason we make music.
Kevin – To exorcise.
SAB – Except the dread multiplies the dread?
Kevin – You start feeding yourself your own fears.
Justin – We become paranoid about being paranoid, which is often worse than being aware of your own affliction.
Kevin – If we wake up happy, we wonder what’s wrong? If we haven’t got fear lingering in our eyes, we wonder what’s up? Someone must have slipped something in my drink today.
SAB – So do you guys dream about music, too?
Kevin – I actually have to fall asleep to music. It started when I was playing in God. I was suffering such bad ringing in my ears after shows. It was so disturbing, that I had to put a cassette deck next to the bed to block out those noises. And now I’m hooked on that – I panic a little if there’s no musical sounds going on in the background.
Justin – I hear tracks in my head all the time, which is well annoying.
SAB – Yeah, I can’t fall asleep to music, which is too bad.
Justin – I can’t anymore myself. I just got all these tracks going in my head. And I can’t fucking sleep anyway.
Kevin – I think Re-entry is perfect for sleeping.
SAB – I was playing Reentry a few years ago, and I was playing it in my room, and I was having a smoke in the dark, and people started knocking on my door cause they could hear sirens and see smoke coming out the door. So everyone was quite worried about me.
Kevin – I think anyone who listens to our music and has any friends who don’t hear this shit – they’re like ‘what the fuck are you listening to? There’s something wrong with you if you’re listening to this shit.’
SAB – It’s far beyond anything fucked up kids listen to.
Kevin – I think for us, we’ve got into such a position that the stuff we make is natural to us. Whereas, I find something like Celine Dion really disturbing. I think there’s something very strange going on in that music, that’s far more Satanic than anything we’ll come out with.
SAB – It occurred to me yesterday that the problem isn’t so much that people don’t like the music I listen to, the problem is that they like the music they like.
Justin – Exactly. It’s their problem.
SAB – So I wanted to ask a few questions about the Macro Dub stuff. Do you think it’s funny, some kind of irony, that dub is all about music with no rules, but it’s actually some of the most formulaic music that gets made sometimes. Every song can be the exact same.
Kevin – You’re saying that contemporary dub music follows the same formula?
SAB – Yeah.
Kevin – I think it’s pretty tragic. In a way, I think by releasing those records, it was more a statement that in a way dub was part of the virus that has permeated every form of music – it’s become a viral thing, whereby the attitude of cut-up, the attitude of studio effects has permeated nearly every form of music. Most contemporary digi-dub is totally fucking boring, but I don’t think that matters really anymore. It doesn’t concern me.
SAB – I got the first Macro Dub Infection compilation in 95, and read the liner notes. I read the liner notes again a few weeks ago, and I realized how much of the thought had gotten into my brain and the way I think, without even realizing it. And now, I’m trying to a dub issue for my magazine, and it’s impossible, cause everything I look at, some days, turns to dub. And I try to do a dub issue, but I might as well write about Celine Dion. All I know is I just don’t want to do something boring. At one point, does it become dub and not dub reggae? When does reggae leave the equation?
Justin – It’s about instrumentation. It is literally about the limits of your instruments, isn’t it, really? And it’s a cultural thing, as well. There’s many, many ways of looking at that.
Kevin – Basically, as Justin said, reggae came from rasta culture, Jamaican culture, and obviously anything outside of that ceases to be reggae. Reggae is a folk music, but what’s interesting is that it’s a folk music that involves science to such a high degree. And I find that really intriguing. And in a way for us, both our interests in dub and reggae is always there, but it became even more apparent that the more we both became hooked on techology and studio technology, we were able to trace back the link. You’d hear a sound, and think, ‘Of course, so that’s how they did it. That’s how they got it.’ And also, the studio for both of us was liberating. It was a way of feeling you could get out of the confines of a band, and a strictly song structure – as in a beginning, verse-chorus-middle8-verse-chorus- end, basically. For us, it was another way of challenging that. And a lot of reggae did that almost subconsciously. In all honesty, reggae is very linked to drug taking as well. A lot of the music was either to amplify drug-taking or to reflect to, and that’s brilliant. You’ve got a whole genre based around disorientation and religious fanaticism, and for us that’s perfect. Primarily, we’re both big reggae fans, and have been touched by reggae, and have been for years. And what I tried to make clear in the notes is that there’s a case for arguing that dub didn’t come from reggae, but at the same time dub wouldn’t have become what it has become without reggae. I think reggae was a crucial artform, that had this amazing priority from being in some cases totally banal and in other cases totally and utterly genius, and often both simultaneously. We like that extremity, and those opposites.
SAB – With the case about dub being before, is that why you were writing about “Good Vibrations” and Wild Bunch and stuff like that?
Kevin – Exactly. Brian Wilson, Joe Meek, and people like that were using dub treatments.
SAB – What else can you think of that you didn’t write about in the liner notes?
Kevin – It would be hard to think back, to be honest. At the time, the liner notes were a huge exorcise, and it kind of fucked my head up to get it together. The conclusion for me, in the sleeve notes, was that dub’s almost a way of thinking, a way of cutting up logic, a way of dispensing with feeling their has to be an answer to every question, and it’s a way of reveling in chaos. For me, that’s a philosophy that you can take anywhere, but mostly it’s through art that it’s been explored.
SAB – Yeah, that’s cool. What was really cool when I first got Macro Dub, it was like the first time I was told that it’s okay to have no rules, that none of that shit matters.
Kevin – Both Justin and I were punk motherfuckers. Punk was our first music anyway. From 10, 11, 12 years old, it was burn the rule book. For us, the idea of living anarchic code, and just questioning everything, leads to a totally insecure existence, but also it leads to an exciting, totally exhilarating existence. And it’s one that, for us, punk opened up. And we’re not talking about the caricature that it’s become now. For us, it was stuff like Craft (or maybe he says Crap) and Discharge was truly revolutionary. And that touched us.
Justin – Punk got me into reggae.
Kevin – It was almost impossible not to hear both at the same time, because they were both outlaw musics. They were naturally drawn to each other, and they thrived in the inner city.
Justin – It was perfect for England in the late seventies. There was just something about council estates and dub reggae and punk music. It was just hardcore.
Kevin – I think it’s harder to appreciate in the States. Things are more ghettoized over there. I remember when the Wire tried to slag off Macro Dub Infection, saying these people were never into reggae, they were primarily into rock music. But the thing is, anyone who grew up listening to punk, was growing up listening to Prince Far I or Dennis Bovell or whoever at the same time. John Lydon, I can remember, on the radio, when he was with PIL, and his favorite track was by Dr. Alimantado. He’d just been beaten to shit by someone, and the song questioned people for the reasons of their pitiful existence. It was always there, and it was natural. And we absolutely can’t listen to just one thing, or one music, or one groove. We both thrive on multiple possibilities.
SAB – Yeah, but I think reggae’s the only thing I can listen to a whole lot of, if I could only listen to one thing.
Justin – It would kill me to make a choice, but I know what you’re saying. It’s beautiful music to listen to, and just chill with.
SAB – It’s refreshing.
Justin – There’s a glow to the best reggae.
Kevin – It’s just beautiful music. And for me, it’s so soulful. I think the important thing about reggae is that it still speaks with the voice. And we both feel passionate about the music with the voice. In a way, we got back to it with Ice, because we wanted to get rid of our reputation for noise that we have, white guitar noise, and we wanted to have verbal noise, layers of voices, like halls of mirrors.
SAB – I can’t explain why, but it’s somehow crazy.
Justin – If you can’t put your finger on it, then that’s good.
Kevin – Outside your own imposed limitations.
Kevin – and it doesn’t seem true for those individuals. It’s actually just totally conformist. And for us the Ice album was just a way of trying to do something totally original, and to be true to ourselves and to our vision of what the record could turn into. It’s a dub record. Those are minced versions of tracks that evolved. That album took three and a half years to make, and virtually killed us trying to make the fucking thing.
Justin – All those tunes are dubs. That’s just it – every tune on that album is a fucking dub. Every tune is made up of fragments of lots of dub mixes. The time we spent in front of a computer making that is just ridiculous. Those songs grew and grew, and then just got exploded.
SAB – So what happens to the stuff that’s not on the album?
Kevin – A fraction of what’s on the tape, what you hear is a fraction, and also what you hear is what’s on the tape radically altered through effects processes. To us, that’s brilliant.
Justin – Each tune is made up of almost 32 multi-tracks minimum. The engineer and I counted it, and there was about 48 tracks, cause of MIDI and tape tracks. Just a ridiculous amount.
Kevin – It’s the same for the Godflesh In Dub album, cause we’re both passionate about dub music, but passionate about the fact that dub, by definition, isn’t one thing. It’s a multiple world, it’s a parallel world.
Justin – And it’s a process.
SAB – Do you guys – like with Macro Dub Infection – like where does God fit into dub? I don’t mean to ask such a cheezy question.
Kevin – God as in the entity, or God as in the group?
SAB – God as in the entity?
Justin – It’s spiritual music. Like Kevin was saying, reggae is spirit music.
Kevin – I mean, that’s why I tried to mention literary things, like My Life In The Bush of Ghosts. To me, dub is almost spirit music. It evokes memories and lost memory, and changed mental state. It defies you to be one thing. It allows for – for me, dub music is linked up with the idea of spectral entities, in the way that you can be haunted by the memory of people you’ll never see again, or friends from 10 – 20 years ago, however long. Somehow dub for me conjures that – that sense of change, of loss, of mutation.
Justin – Dream states.
SAB – But it’s also a way of dealing with the loss.
Kevin – Yeah, also making the most of it.
SAB – That’s why I think echo is so cool. Of all the effects there is, echo is the only one.
Kevin – We love tape echo. Tape echo is our favorite process.
Justin – Yeah, we use lots of different things. We’re obsessed with space echoes, digital delays as well, frequency delays – echo is so ultra-important to everything we do, even Godflesh.
Kevin – Delays is such an important thing. It’s an absolute addiction for us. It elevates things. It lets things flow. It gives things their own space.
SAB – It gives things its own life.
Justin – Totally. The echo chamber is an instrument in itself. For us, effects have almost been as important, if not more important, than the original part for any music we’ve been involved in.
SAB – I haven’t even seen this, but one really cool thing – well, I have this digital echo pedal that tries to simulate analogue, cause it’s all I could find when I was looking. But apparently – have you ever heard of things called Phantom Channels or ghost tracks?
Kevin – Yeah, that rings a bell.
SAB – Well, apparently, you can never really record over tape. So when you’re recording the tape echoes, there’s still leftover sounds from the previous experiments. And I think that’s the coolest concept I can think of.
Justin – Yeah, that happens if you use a tape echo, or a space echo. You always get leftover information on the tape. That’s something else. We use digital versions of space echoes and the Real McCoy, as well, so we can get the best of both worlds.
Kevin – Everything again. Any form of delay is good. Any echo is fucking great. All the way to the oldest analogue, it’s all so functional. And even now you’ve got the Digital JamMan delays, which are fantastic, and they’re not remotely analogue, but we find those just as valid. We’re really anti-snobbery. People involved in a lot of the music that we are involved in are so puritanical and snobby, it makes us want to puke. So again, anything goes, really.
SAB – Man, my head keeps on flipping around today. A question’s ready, and then I’m about to start speaking, and then nothing comes out of my mouth. Going back to the God thing again, with Techno Animal and records like Reentry, you can definitely feel loads of spirits in the record …
Justin – It depends what drugs you’re taking.
SAB – Are you guys really taking loads of drugs when you make this? Cause if you are …
Justin – Kevin’s had it. He’s been through it, but I’m still on it.
Kevin – Basically, I don’t drink or take drugs anymore. Justin does. As I said, we were laughing about it, it’s a stupid thing, but if it has the same impact for Justin and he’s smoking or whatever, and it has the same impact on me, then we know that we’re on the right track.
Justin – That’s the test. We both want to be battered by it, whether I’m already battered on drugs or Kevin isn’t – as long as the music’s battering us, that’s it.
Kevin – And to be honest, the music that I love most is music that simulates drugs, that reminds me of when I was off my face. Part of the reason I gave up drugs, personally, was because I felt there was other ways to achieve that. But actually I prefer the company of people that are getting totally fucking out of it. I hate people normally that are too (whatever) to do drugs.
SAB – Yeah, I don’t take drugs really, but I just like shit that messes with my sense of time and space.
Kevin – That’s what I’m saying. It’s valid. Drugs really are about disorientation, about displacement of states of mind, and heightened awareness, but music is capable of reaching all those things. And ideally, that’s what we want from our music. And if it’s hitting me the same way it’s hitting Justin, and I’m battered, then we just know this is valid.
Justin – For us, we want excitement and energy from music, which is why for us, a lot of pop music, or bland metal, or whatever, unimaginative music, is lethal, because it almost drains your energy and excitement. Whereas we love, are drawn to, music that sparks you up, that basically just fires you up, fires your mind up.
SAB – I think 90% of the world is vampires basically. The radio vampirizes you.
Kevin – That’s what we’re trying to say on some of the Ice tracks lyrically.
SAB – I guess you guys, in your day to day life – you guys have basically left everyday life, haven’t you?
Kevin – My girlfriend accuses me of it, all the time.
SAB – How do you guys take care of the bills?
Kevin – Well, that’s the problem.
SAB – I think the radio’s a normalizing influence in my life. If I was just listening to Techno Animal records, I’d be crazy.
Justin – Oh fuck, yeah. We have no balance. We’re just in that world permanently.
SAB – No, I definitely always try to find a balance.
Justin – Balance for us is just not part of our dialogue. We don’t understand any form of balance. Just take it all as far as you can.
Kevin – We’re quite self-destructive. Irresponsible, as well.
Justin – Masochistic.
SAB – What about eating? I can’t even picture you guys making dinner after this conversation.
Kevin – Yeah, we eat from a lot of takeaways, and deliveries.
Justin – A lot of hot East Indian food. The food we like is like the music we make. The food has got to be as extreme as the music.
SAB – The food’s got to be steamy?
Justin – Extreme as the music.
Kevin – The perfect Thai food will finally leave us with smoke coming out of our neck and head.
SAB – Yeah, have you ate some of that crazy Indian food with the chilis.
Justin – Yeah. vindaloo. We endorse vindaloo. It’s like this big thing in England. It’s the most intense part of Indian food, because it’s the hottest you can eat. The same way you guys have got Mexican, with really hot jalapenos. Indian food is our equivalent. You burn. We love it.
SAB – I ate this food, I was actually in England, when I ate it. We had this chili eating contest after dinner, when we were drunk – cause you could bring your own wine into the restaurants in England, which you can’t do here – and we ate a bunch of chilis, and I ended up in the washroom, and my eyes were bulging out of my face, and I was shivering on the outside, but inside I was burning up. I was so fucked.
Kevin – That’s what we’re like after we mix a track.
Justin – Hot Indian food, and then a mix afterwards. That effect should be on the mixing desk.
SAB – You guys sound like you’re having a lot of fun anyway.
Kevin – Yeah. That’s the part of what we dislike about the way the media tries to portray you. For us, it’s excitement, really, and we get off on what we do. In a way, we obviously crave extremes so much that we can almost caricature ourselves. We’re totally aware of it, but we’re just like fuck it – you’ve got to be honest, and do what’s true to yourself, with what you do. And most people are so worried about how they look publicly, and where they fit, and for us it’s funny.
Justin – You have to laugh, or you’ll cry.
Kevin – The tragedy of it all.
Justin – We’re incredibly humorous people. People have this misunderstanding. At every interview, whether we’re together or individually, people imagine us this to be these constantly brooding, serious people – but when we’re reaching heights of sickness, we’re laughing as much as anything. It’s like if you’re on a joyride, or you’re in a car that’s about to crash, you’re just laughing at the situation, cause you feel totally helpless. And that’s how we feel.
SAB – You guys sound like you’ve got some serious dread. What are you so worried about?
Justin – Everything.
Kevin – What isn’t there to worry about? … That was a funny noise on that one.
Justin – I’m getting the strangest feedback on this one.
SAB – Yeah, it’s going to be strange to play this back on the tape.
Justin – Yeah, I hope you get something out of it.